[gpva-ic] Re: [gpva-business] NOVA Stuff

Fri Dec 12 06:37:14 EST 2003

Looks like Jim considers discussion to be "crap."

----- Original Message -----
From: <jimpolk at cavtel.net>
To: <gpva-ic at vagreenparty.org>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [gpva-ic] Re: [gpva-business] NOVA Stuff


> Eric,
> The point of keeping IC listings to the IC is not for secrecy, I do not
> desire that.  But, the business of the IC is the business of the IC until
> we come up with what we are going to do in my opinion. Otherwise, if the
> entire business list gets it, it generates even more crap (which we as you
> know we have a lot on the listserv). It does not allow the people on the
> IC to speak their mind to each other without having to fight off a barrage
> of mail from other parties and intereferes with us making our decisions.
> Why then have an IC listserv. If people want to see what is going on in
> the IC, Susan has the capability to let someone subscribe to it but not be
> able to post to it. The only people who can post to it are IC members. So,
> if someone is REALLY interested in observing what we do, they can
> subscribe, and again I think this makes us more efficient. That is the
> same reason that the IC conference telephone call is only going to be open
> to IC members.  When I post the telephone number to call for the IC
> conference call and the code number, I would appreciate your not sharing
> it.  If someone logs into the IC conference call who is not on the IC then
> the call will be terminated.  The reason we have subcommitteess is to get
> things done.
>
> Just my thoughts.  I hope your day goes well.
>
> Peace,
>
> Jim
>
> > Hello Jim,
> >
> > This is news to me.  We do have the IC to try to get things done, but I
> > don't believe we created it to try to limit discussion or take actions
> > in secret.  What you are suggesting is counter to consensus, and while
> > it may at times result in a quick decision, if those decisions are not
> > grounded in consensus the underlying issues will continue to surface
> > until they are dealt with in an appropriate manner.
> >
> > I think it's generally good manners to send postings to the appropriate
> > list, but that may be in the eyes of the sender.  For example, I've
> > never intentionally sent an IC email to the business list, but I am this
> > one.
> >
> > You're welcome to ask the Rockbridge Greens if they'd like to appoint a
> > different IC representative.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > jimpolk at cavtel.net wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello IC,
> >> Comments to the IC ARE NOT supposed to be posted to the business list.
> >> Members of the IC that intentionally post their IC comments to the
> >> business list need to stop.  We have the IC to try to limit the
> >> discussion
> >> to get things done. If IC members cannot stick to this, then their
local
> >> will be asked to get a new IC member.
> >> Jim Polk, Co-Chair
> >> Green Party of Virginia
> >>
> >> > David,
> >> >
> >> > You are absolutely right. It is up to those claiming a problem to
show
> >> > that
> >> > there were settled rules of some sort. They have the burden of proof.
> >> >
> >> > My feeling is that if they can show rules that were broken, they are
> >> > entitled to NOVA's affiliation. If they can't, they lose the
> >> affiliation.
> >> > It
> >> > may not even be necessary to vote in the IC on it. But then, the
> >> people
> >> > involved may negotiate an outcome that will moot our discussion.
> >> >
> >> > Charles Murn
> >> > CVG
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "David R. Gaines" <davidgainesusa at yahoo.com>
> >> > To: <gpva-ic at vagreenparty.org>
> >> > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 4:11 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [gpva-ic] Re: [gpva-business] NOVA Stuff
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Charles, I think you're giving too much credit to the NoVa local,
> >> which,
> >> > according to my
> >> >> observations over the last couple of years, has been run VERY
> >> >> informally.
> >> > I doubt that they can
> >> >> prove anything along these lines, but perhaps (I hope) Jim
Lowenstern
> >> >> can
> >> > provide something to
> >> >> indicate otherwise.
> >> >>
> >> >> DG
> >> >> Loudoun Greens
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --- charles murn <cmurn at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > I think it is premature to hold an IC meeting on this question. As
> >> per
> >> > my
> >> >> > email to the business list, there still needs to be a
determination
> >> > whether
> >> >> > the surprise participants at the NOVA meeting followed other
> >> existing
> >> > rules,
> >> >> > even unwritten rules (the constitution of the British
commonwealth,
> >> I
> >> > might
> >> >> > point out, is not written!). Until that inquiry determines whether
> >> >> other
> >> >> > rules that bylaws were followed, it is premature to declare the
> >> > decisions
> >> >> > made to have been legitimate and, therefore, to decide there is
> >> >> grounds
> >> > for
> >> >> > suspending affiliation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Charles Murn
> >> >> > CVG
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: "Scott Burger" <burp at mindspring.com>
> >> >> > To: <gpva-ic at vagreenparty.org>
> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:11 PM
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [gpva-ic] Re: [gpva-business] NOVA Stuff
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > I agree.
> >> >> > > Thanks,
> >> >> > > Scott
> >> >> > > www.richmondgreens.org
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > On Tuesday, December 9, 2003, at 10:11 PM, Eric Sheffield wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > Hello Jim,
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > I think you are quite right to not take a position on this
> >> matter.
> >> >> > > > Your
> >> >> > > > job as chair is to act as a facilitator in resolving the
> >> conflict.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > I would like to formally propose to the IC that:
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Affiliation with the GPVA be temporarily withdrawn from the
> >> NOVA
> >> > local.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Eric Sheffield
> >> >> > > > Rockbridge Greens
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > jimpolk at cavtel.net wrote:
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> Hello Gang, especially David Gaines,
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> This NOVA stuff is really sucking up a lot of our time and
> >> energy
> >> > and
> >> >> > > >> I
> >> >> > > >> supposed it will continue to do so for the next few days.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> I spoke to Jim Lowenstern, who I have the greatest respect
> >> for.
> >> >> > > >> However,
> >> >> > > >> Jim informed me that NOVA Greens had NO bylaws.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> This leaves anyone who shows up to a meeting able to do
pretty
> >> >> much
> >> >> > > >> whatever they want to. This was an official meeting of the
> >> NOVA
> >> >> > > >> Greens. At
> >> >> > > >> that official meeting, a new chair and steering committee
were
> >> >> > > >> elected.  I
> >> >> > > >> was not there. Carey is accused by some reliable people to
> >> have
> >> >> > > >> approached
> >> >> > > >> the whole process violently. Even so, that does not negate
the
> >> >> > > >> validity of
> >> >> > > >> what happened.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> I have personally received many emails from people who are
> >> > registered
> >> >> > > >> with
> >> >> > > >> NOVA wanting to know what to do. I have asked them to be
> >> patient
> >> > for
> >> >> > > >> a few
> >> >> > > >> days.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> I have heard a lot of chatter on this topic over the past few
> >> >> days
> >> > on
> >> >> > > >> the
> >> >> > > >> phone and on the listserv. I have been sitting on the fence
> >> >> > > >> intentionally
> >> >> > > >> so let the debate run its course. I guess as Co-Chair I am
> >> >> supposed
> >> >> > > >> to be
> >> >> > > >> a mediator for this, while SOME expect and are asking me to
> >> make
> >> >> a
> >> >
> >> >> > > >> decision and take a stand and step in and do something.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> I will do this in the next day or two.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> But, so far the easiest solution I see is to disaffiliate the
> >> >> NOVA
> >> >> > > >> Greens.
> >> >> > > >> Then at the next business meeting,
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> [which I am proposing be the first weekend in February (Kirit
> >> >> says
> >> > he
> >> >> > > >> needs a few extra days to get ready) and this still lets us
> >> have
> >> > the
> >> >> > > >> meeting during the legislative session]
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> Jim Lowenstern or someone else from the old NOVA can ask for
> >> >> > > >> affilitation,
> >> >> > > >> and get it or not. Boom done.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> Carey Campbell or someone else can also ask for affiliation
of
> >> a
> >> > Green
> >> >> > > >> Local, and get it or not. Boom done.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> Some feel, as I do, that the local level folks should solve
> >> this.
> >> > But
> >> >> > > >> I am
> >> >> > > >> not really sure that another local is the right group to sort
> >> out
> >> > the
> >> >> > > >> problems of another local. I feel it is the state
> >> organizations
> >> >> to
> >> >> > > >> clear
> >> >> > > >> things like this up.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> I also feel that time is important, as we have so many
> >> important
> >> >> > > >> issues
> >> >> > > >> coming up, i.e. presidential stuff, house of representatives,
> >> > running
> >> >> > > >> statewide candidates for governor, lt. governor and attorney
> >> > general
> >> >> > > >> in
> >> >> > > >> 2005...
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> I will be convening the IC to examine this manner of the NOVA
> >> > Greens
> >> >> > > >> early
> >> >> > > >> next week.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> Jim Polk, Co-Chair GPVA
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > >> Sent via gpva-business at vagreenparty.org
> >> >> > > >> To change your subscription options, see:
> >> >> > > >> http://lists.vagreenparty.org/mailman/listinfo/gpva-business
> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________
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> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
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> >> >> > >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> __________________________________
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> >>
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>
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